The New York State Senate hearing on the state’s non-collection of taxes on cigarettes sold to non-Native Americans on Indian Reservations brought representatives from Indian nations from all over New York State into a highly charged arena at the Borough of Manhattan Community College on Tuesday.
The hearing was chaired by state Sen. Craig Johnson (D-Port Washington) and had several other senators on the committee in attendance throughout the day. Though the hearing was scheduled to end at 2:30 p.m., the full slate of witnesses and complexity of the testimony being given extended to just after 4:30 p.m., with only two brief breaks in between.
advertisement
Johnson had to call for order on a couple of occasions during heated exchanges between Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn) and JC Seneca of the Seneca Nation of Indians that prompted mocking rebukes from Indians in the auditorium. Golden implored the Seneca nation to help New York State given the $4 billion budget deficit the state is facing claiming that New York State will soon be in the same position as California and issuing IOU’s to contractors, vendors and employees. This was met with calls from the crowd, many of whom were yelling out “That’s not our problem” and taunting the senator as he walked out midway through the proceedings.
Early on in the testimony, the senators attempted to establish the amount of tax money that New York was theoretically missing by not collecting tax on tobacco sales on Indian territories when sold to non-natives from off reservation land. This proved more difficult than the panel probably hoped as the first three witnesses gave figures that ranged between $95 million annually to $1.6 billion annually. The latter figure being given during spirited testimony given by Steve Rosenthal, a former tobacco distributor turned industry consultant.
The $95 million estimate was proffered by Peter Kiernan, representing Governor Paterson’s office, which represented a portion of the more than $200 million missing tax revenue as reported by William Comiskey, the deputy commission or Taxation and Finance. Kiernan said the reduced figure assumed a high level of “non-compliance in collection” of the tax even if a mechanism was adopted to collect taxes on cigarettes and it was agreed to by the tribes.
The committee pursued Kiernan more aggressively than other witnesses, clearly indicating a fracture between the governor’s office and the state legislature. Kiernan made it clear that the governor’s office is less than hopeful that this money will be collected and cited discussion with the New York State police that efforts to collect taxes from merchants on reservation territory would likely be met with violence. Key to this assumption were the incidents in 1992 and 1997 where New York State troopers attempting to enter Seneca territory upstate New York were met with angry mobs resulting in a standoff on both occasions.
Kiernan represented that the governor was determined to come to a resolution with the tribes but as of now has followed the practice of “forbearance,” which was begun during the Cuomo administration and continued through the Pataki and Spitzer administrations as well. Kiernan noted that the lack of clarity in the law and precedent to collect taxes from Indian nations as well as the likelihood of violent confrontation made the situation more difficult even though the Paterson administration believed it had a right to collect taxes from the tribes.
He went on to explain that the state troopers indicated during their discussions that the cost to close down activity on reservation lands in New York in an attempt to enforce taxation would cost nearly $2 million per day with no clear idea of how long a standoff between the state and the nations would take. Senators Golden and George Winner (R-Elmira) took the greatest exception to Kiernan’s testimony prompting Winner to ask “Doesn’t that send a message that there are rewards for not following the law?”
Other senators, most notably Sen. Ruben Diaz (D-Bronx) attempted to lay a foundation that Native Americans enjoy public resources from transportation to healthcare. But there was a noticeable shift in the room when JC Seneca of the Seneca Nation and Seneca counsel Rob Porter were sworn in and took their seats in the witness chairs in the front of the packed room. Johnson took an amicable and cautious approach with Seneca and Porter as the discussion turned toward the key issue of sovereignty. Seneca in turn spoke in measured tones about the definition of sovereignty and cited case law and a Federal treaty between the United States and the Seneca Nation establishing that all commerce conducted on reservation territory is exempt from all local, state and federal taxes.
The senate committee ran into a brick wall with the Seneca and Porter testimony. As counsel to the Seneca Nation, Porter quoted state and federal decisions with efficiency and closed down every angle the committee pursued to further its goal of taxing Indian nations. When Winner remarked that Mr. Seneca appeared to be a non-violent and peaceful person and suggested that conflict could be avoided, Seneca replied to the delight of the Native Americans in the room that “you obviously don’t know me very well.”
He went on to say that neither side wanted conflict but reminded the committee that it was New York State that “invaded Seneca land with a thousand state troopers” and asked what the committee would do if that happened on their land. At the end of the question and answer period, Seneca struck a conciliatory note that the Seneca Nation would continue to pursue all matters in a court of law and try to avoid violent confrontation.
In a brief interview after his testimony, Seneca was upbeat about the hearing saying that “dialogue is beneficial to both sides of our issues” and that he was very concerned for the “success of western New York.” He is one of the largest employers in its region, which has turned the economic tables in the past two decades.
Much of their success has been due to the revenues generated from three gaming operations controlled by the nation and the increased revenues from the sale of tobacco. Seneca Nation and Chief James Ransom, Chief of the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, provided economic reports as part of their testimonies to illustrate the economic benefit that the tribes activities have on the regions they border.
Left unclear is what role the committee will play and whether or not any recommendations they make can be enacted or enforced. As a result of the taxes on cigarettes in New York—and Manhattan in particular—all Indian tribes have seen an explosion in sales on reservation territory.
Part this economic boon to the tribes is a war chest of funds to fight any legal battles that they deem to be en encroachment on their sovereign rights to engage in commerce on their lands. What does seem clear is that New York will have to look elsewhere to close its ever increasing budget gap.
Tags: cigarette, Craig Johnson, Indian reservation
Carson…it doesn’t seem like a Phillip Morris backed power grab. It is what it is….simply Albany trying to recover lost revenue in taxes. Their only solution to government is to continually tax rather than manage the State like a business. Phillip Morris isn’t losing a dime…in fact with increased sales on reservations, Phillip Morris should be contacted by the Seneca’s as an ally! You can go to States like Florida and buy a pack of cigs for $4. Here in NY the same pack is $7.50 The $3.50 difference is nothing but taxes. That’s why NYS is so desperate to get the lost tax revenue from the Seneca’s. Gasoline is no different. Drove thru Jersey Sunday and gas was $2.50 a gallon. In NY the same gas is $2.80. The difference is taxes not the price of the product.
Therefore Phillip Morris should be supporting you as the more you sell on the reservation, the more they make as well. As for NYS….tough! The law is the law and the treaty is what it is. NYS will have to find money elsewhere.
Carson,
You won’t win the People by calling New York State Troopers “a bunch of sneering thugs.” We should lift all putative “sin” taxes. “Sin” taxes impose penalties on an individual’s choice to use a legal product as he or she wishes. Namely, these taxes do not penalize an individual’s choice as it affects others but choice itself. For example, government does not tax the alcoholic or the pregnant smoker–it taxes all individuals regardless of their usage.
Lastly, I hope that the Seneca Nation chooses legal action and not war to resolve this issue. If they hurt New York State Troopers, they choose war. If they choose war, the American Nation will DESTROY them.
The plutocrats from NYC are used to pushing around the docile and unprotesting upstate white soccer moms, who are fully willing to accept their role as second-class citizen and docile tax cow for the elites in their Manhattan high-rises.
But you try and occupy a rez…. to forcibly extract taxes from an impoverished sovereign nation who you’ve done nothing but victimize for centuries…and you’re going to war. Period.
JC Seneca wasn’t joking. This cigarette business is literally the only thing keeping thousands of NY Tribe members from total indigence, and more importantly it is one of the last symbols of freedom from the stranglehold the NYC plutocrats hold over the State. The NY State Troopers, already a total bunch of sneering thugs, will have to burn the rezes to the ground before they’ll submit.
I also fully believe the bros below who say they will come from many states away to stand their ground with the NY tribes to prevent this fascist police state from stealing their rights at gunpoint.
It’s not just the Tribes, either. Based on just the discussions I’ve seen online, there are many, many upstate white people who are disgusted with this shameless Phillip Morris-backed power grab and are prepared and ready to support the Tribes’ struggle in person.
Lets just hope Paterson snaps out of his ugly imperialistic fantasy before State Troopers and National Guardsmen get hurt.
New York is trying to rape the Indians again. Phillip Morris is partly behind this as they are losing business. This is all about money. Fight for your rights and I hope all, not just Indians join in this fight! It’s time we all stand up for our constitution. Something is wrong with our Country & we need to change how Congress does what special interests want it to do.
SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE. Ask the anti-tobacco folks to tell you what truly is in second hand smoke…when it burns from the coal its oxygenated and everything is burned and turned into water vapor………………thats right water……….you ever burned leaves in the fall…know how the heavy smoke bellows off…….thats the organic material releasing the moisture in the leaves the greener the leaves/organic material the more smoke thats made……thats why second hand smoke is classified as a class 3 irritant by osha and epa as of 2006……..after that time EPA decided to change the listing of shs as a carcinogen for political reasons…….because it contained a trace amount of 6 chemicals so small even sophisticated scientific equipment can hardly detect it ……..they didnt however use the normal dose makes the poison computation when they made this political decision. However osha still maintains shs/ets as an irritant only and maintains the dose makes the poison position…….as osha is in charge of indoor air quality its decisions are based on science not political agendas as epa’s is. We can see this is true after a federal judge threw out the epa’s study on shs as junk science……… Wednesday, March 12, 2008 British Medical Journal & WHO conclude secondhand smoke “health hazard” claims are greatly exaggerated The BMJ published report at:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057
concludes that “The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer are considerably weaker than generally believed.” What makes this study so significant is that it took place over a 39 year period, and studied the results of non-smokers who lived with smokers…..
meaning these non-smokers were exposed to secondhand smoke up to 24 hours per day; 365 days per year for 39 years. And there was still no relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality. In light of the damage to business, jobs, and the economy from smoking bans the BMJ report should be revisited by lawmakers as a reference tool and justification to repeal the now unnecessary and very damaging smoking ban laws. Also significant is the World Health Organization (WHO) study:
Passive smoking doesn’t cause cancer-official By Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent ” The results are consistent with their being no additional risk for a person living or working with a smoker and could be consistent with passive smoke having a protective effect against lung cancer. The summary, seen by The Telegraph, also states: ‘There was no association between lung cancer risk and ETS exposure during childhood.’ ” And if lawmakers need additional real world data to further highlight the need to eliminate these onerous and arbitrary laws, air quality testing by Johns Hopkins University proves that secondhand smoke is up to 25,000 times SAFER than occupational (OSHA) workplace regulations.
The Chemistry of Secondary Smoke About 94% of secondary smoke is composed of water vapor and ordinary air with a slight excess of carbon dioxide. Another 3 % is carbon monoxide. The last 3 % contains the rest of the 4,000 or so chemicals supposedly to be found in smoke… but found, obviously, in very small quantities if at all.This is because most of the assumed chemicals have never actually been found in secondhand smoke. (1989 Report of the Surgeon General p. 80). Most of these chemicals can only be found in quantities measured in nanograms, picograms and femtograms. Many cannot even be detected in these amounts: their presence is simply theorized rather than measured. To bring those quantities into a real world perspective, take a saltshaker and shake out a few grains of salt. A single grain of that salt will weigh in the ballpark of 100 million picograms! (Allen Blackman. Chemistry Magazine 10/08/01). – (Excerpted from “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains” with permission of the author.)
The Myth of the Smoking Ban ‘Miracle’ Restrictions on smoking around the world are claimed to have had a dramatic effect on heart attack rates. It’s not true. http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7451/
As for secondhand smoke in the air, OSHA has stated outright that: “Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)…It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded.” -Letter From Greg Watchman, Acting Sec’y, OSHA, To Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997
-harleyrider1978
Can NY assert their taxes on Vt. or PA.? So, don’t try it on Sovereign Tribal Territories. I’m a Ho-Chunk from NE. All Indians across the U.S. are watching what happens in NY and support the Tribes there. We will be there in a heart beat and in force when the time comes. Once they set a precedent in NY, it will negatively affect all other Tribes in other states. Why does NY think they are missing out on Tribal tobacco tax sales. Tribes have a right to tax their own products, similar to states. You can’t take what isn’t yours. Well, I guess you already did, BIG TIME. You’ve taken enough and we won’t allow you to continue. Be prepared for a fight with all Indian Nations that will be unprecedented. I joke not.
[...] NY Indians Stand Up for Treaty Rights re: Tobacco Taxes Jump to Comments From the L.I. Press: [...]
Just to let you know, I am from the Great Apache Nation in the SouthWest, and would come to aid my fellow Natives in a Heartbeat, Arizona is not that far away, yes, no, I don’t think so. Be prepared New Yorkers.
Let NY try and stop our fellow Natives on their industry. We’ll come up to NY and assist them in any way. Once they start on one Native tribe, all others will defend. Aho!
Interesting note. Actually the earliest race mixing within the tribes came from non-consensual sex between caucasian men and Indian women. In other words, rape. Throughout the years there was significant blood mixing on tribal lands with African Americans who were seeking refuge from slavery or save haven for recently freed slaves still persecuted. So, great question. Thanks for asking.
I saw some of these Indians…..I was wondering what tribe in Africa they are actually from?? I never knew African tribesmen were call Indians too!!
If they’re “leading in” they are NOT reservation property. Parts of some major highways ARE on reservation property such as 5 & 20 in Irving NY! NO NY state cannot create a toll on reservation property.
Can NYS create tolls for roads leading into Indian Reservations?